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	<title>Comments on: The Philosophy Of Friendship</title>
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	<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2009/06/29/the-philosophy-of-friendship/</link>
	<description>A blog about MMORPGs like World of Warcraft (WoW) and Everquest 2 (EQ2)</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Toldain</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2009/06/29/the-philosophy-of-friendship/comment-page-1/#comment-8302</link>
		<dc:creator>Toldain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=908#comment-8302</guid>
		<description>Let's be careful to not just see what we are looking for.  

None of the problems mentioned are unique to online relationships.  It may be easier to assume a persona in the online world, but it can and is done offline as well.

I have several good friends via online gaming.  I first got to know my then-future wife via a bulletin board, though we didn't start dating until we met in real life.  

I know of several other couples with a similar story.  Some who met in an MMO, in fact.  The key to their success is, I think, integrity, and an early exchange of photographs.  They didn't pretend to be someone else.  And there was a recognition that one needed to know what somebody really looked like before a lot was invested in the relationship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s be careful to not just see what we are looking for.  </p>
<p>None of the problems mentioned are unique to online relationships.  It may be easier to assume a persona in the online world, but it can and is done offline as well.</p>
<p>I have several good friends via online gaming.  I first got to know my then-future wife via a bulletin board, though we didn&#8217;t start dating until we met in real life.  </p>
<p>I know of several other couples with a similar story.  Some who met in an MMO, in fact.  The key to their success is, I think, integrity, and an early exchange of photographs.  They didn&#8217;t pretend to be someone else.  And there was a recognition that one needed to know what somebody really looked like before a lot was invested in the relationship.</p>
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		<title>By: Psychochild&#8217;s Blog &#187; The virtual and the &#8220;real&#8221; sides of life</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2009/06/29/the-philosophy-of-friendship/comment-page-1/#comment-8296</link>
		<dc:creator>Psychochild&#8217;s Blog &#187; The virtual and the &#8220;real&#8221; sides of life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 07:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=908#comment-8296</guid>
		<description>[...] over at We Fly Spitfires wrote an interesting article about The Philosophy of Friendship. He takes a look at what friendship in the online world means. The comments are equally insightful, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] over at We Fly Spitfires wrote an interesting article about The Philosophy of Friendship. He takes a look at what friendship in the online world means. The comments are equally insightful, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2009/06/29/the-philosophy-of-friendship/comment-page-1/#comment-8290</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 21:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=908#comment-8290</guid>
		<description>@IRGRL Intimate relationships are an very interesting subject matter when it comes to virtual worlds and MMORPGs. I've know several people who have had 'virtual' relationships and really thought it was true love but then met the person face-to-face and everything evaporated. It's a very strange thing. I don't know if that's because it's an appearance thing, a sexual thing, or it's just that people are downright different from the personas they project in online worlds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@IRGRL Intimate relationships are an very interesting subject matter when it comes to virtual worlds and MMORPGs. I&#8217;ve know several people who have had &#8216;virtual&#8217; relationships and really thought it was true love but then met the person face-to-face and everything evaporated. It&#8217;s a very strange thing. I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s because it&#8217;s an appearance thing, a sexual thing, or it&#8217;s just that people are downright different from the personas they project in online worlds.</p>
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		<title>By: IRGRL</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2009/06/29/the-philosophy-of-friendship/comment-page-1/#comment-8276</link>
		<dc:creator>IRGRL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 00:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=908#comment-8276</guid>
		<description>"Personally, I believe that nothing can ultimately replace real life interaction as it’s just too easy to project a persona through a computer and not truly represent yourself. I don’t mean lying about who you are or what you look like, it’s more about the way you talk and interact. If you’re typing with someone, for instance, it’s very hard to convey emotion and, if you’re chatting to them over a mic, it’s impossible to see their body language. Don’t get me wrong though, I’m totally into having online friends and I’ve got loads that I consider to be close ones. What I mean though is that I’m not going to declare my undying love for someone I’ve never met in person."


I work online, go to school online, game online, do most of my shopping online, as my real life consists of (now) 5 children, and my everyday is filled with baseball camps, games, playoffs, lessons etc etc. 

I have had 2 relationships online, one failed miserably, we met in a game, had a lot in common, he was about 9hours from me, came to meet, and when we did, i went

EGADS, he is WAY too short for me, no we had never discussed it, as I never thought it would be an issue.
Seems superficial, but he found things with me that he found less attractive ( I wasn't my online gaming character) 
I had another one that was very good, no it didn't work out, but we are very good friends, and talk daily still to this day. 
I have a group of girlfriends that we all met in a game in Yahoo, we have all gone to weddings together, we exchange x mas gifts and b- day gifts. I consider them closer friends to my ones in RL, granted they are few, as 5 kids does tend to put a damper on the social life :P
But I don't disregard any of my friendships online as anything less then my ones not virtual.
I have even entrusted one of my virtual friends with an overseas bank account for me, for a rainy day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Personally, I believe that nothing can ultimately replace real life interaction as it’s just too easy to project a persona through a computer and not truly represent yourself. I don’t mean lying about who you are or what you look like, it’s more about the way you talk and interact. If you’re typing with someone, for instance, it’s very hard to convey emotion and, if you’re chatting to them over a mic, it’s impossible to see their body language. Don’t get me wrong though, I’m totally into having online friends and I’ve got loads that I consider to be close ones. What I mean though is that I’m not going to declare my undying love for someone I’ve never met in person.&#8221;</p>
<p>I work online, go to school online, game online, do most of my shopping online, as my real life consists of (now) 5 children, and my everyday is filled with baseball camps, games, playoffs, lessons etc etc. </p>
<p>I have had 2 relationships online, one failed miserably, we met in a game, had a lot in common, he was about 9hours from me, came to meet, and when we did, i went</p>
<p>EGADS, he is WAY too short for me, no we had never discussed it, as I never thought it would be an issue.<br />
Seems superficial, but he found things with me that he found less attractive ( I wasn&#8217;t my online gaming character)<br />
I had another one that was very good, no it didn&#8217;t work out, but we are very good friends, and talk daily still to this day.<br />
I have a group of girlfriends that we all met in a game in Yahoo, we have all gone to weddings together, we exchange x mas gifts and b- day gifts. I consider them closer friends to my ones in RL, granted they are few, as 5 kids does tend to put a damper on the social life <img src='http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/wp-content/plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-raspberry.png' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' width='16' height='16' /><br />
But I don&#8217;t disregard any of my friendships online as anything less then my ones not virtual.<br />
I have even entrusted one of my virtual friends with an overseas bank account for me, for a rainy day.</p>
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		<title>By: Espen</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2009/06/29/the-philosophy-of-friendship/comment-page-1/#comment-8273</link>
		<dc:creator>Espen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=908#comment-8273</guid>
		<description>Many apologies to Beej from tennessee (what are the odds??) - though I think it would be a great idea to teach philosophy in high school, I appreciate this was too much of a stretch of the imagination. Thanks for setting me straight :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many apologies to Beej from tennessee (what are the odds??) - though I think it would be a great idea to teach philosophy in high school, I appreciate this was too much of a stretch of the imagination. Thanks for setting me straight <img src='http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/wp-content/plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' width='16' height='16' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Consequences In Virtual Worlds - We Fly Spitfires - MMORPG Blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2009/06/29/the-philosophy-of-friendship/comment-page-1/#comment-8270</link>
		<dc:creator>Consequences In Virtual Worlds - We Fly Spitfires - MMORPG Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=908#comment-8270</guid>
		<description>[...] post about the philosophy of friendship yesterday received lots of fantastic comments and responses (thanks all!) and whilst replying to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] post about the philosophy of friendship yesterday received lots of fantastic comments and responses (thanks all!) and whilst replying to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Whats my main again?</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2009/06/29/the-philosophy-of-friendship/comment-page-1/#comment-8268</link>
		<dc:creator>Whats my main again?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=908#comment-8268</guid>
		<description>Very good topic I must say. I think that where the friendship forms is irrelevant. While it is simpler to hide your identity on the internet, often times people express themselves much more freely. Many people with social disorders can meet and talk to people on their own terms when it comes to the internet. This allows these people with a physiological disadvantage to form true friendships they otherwise wouldn't. 

Additionally comparing peoples persona in the real world and in a game can both equally be decieving. Yes the person you are talking to online may not be who they say they are... but you may very well run into the same situation at a bar, or church, or even the workplace. Most people in social situations wear masks and as a result forming friendships in real life and in a game or online community takes time. 

You go to a store and say hello to the clerk and they smile back. Ask how eachother is doing and typically respond with fine or good (regardless if that isn't the case). Say have a good day, smile and leave. Did you form a friendship? Is that any more or less real then joining some random person to kill a quest mob then disbanding the group after? 

I would say most friendships you form online aren't 100% true, but then I would say the same thing for real life. 

Living a lie isn't a good way to live. You can live a lie in a game just as easily as you can in RL. Hopefully everyone out there has someone they can turn to in a time of need... whether that person is offline or online.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good topic I must say. I think that where the friendship forms is irrelevant. While it is simpler to hide your identity on the internet, often times people express themselves much more freely. Many people with social disorders can meet and talk to people on their own terms when it comes to the internet. This allows these people with a physiological disadvantage to form true friendships they otherwise wouldn&#8217;t. </p>
<p>Additionally comparing peoples persona in the real world and in a game can both equally be decieving. Yes the person you are talking to online may not be who they say they are&#8230; but you may very well run into the same situation at a bar, or church, or even the workplace. Most people in social situations wear masks and as a result forming friendships in real life and in a game or online community takes time. </p>
<p>You go to a store and say hello to the clerk and they smile back. Ask how eachother is doing and typically respond with fine or good (regardless if that isn&#8217;t the case). Say have a good day, smile and leave. Did you form a friendship? Is that any more or less real then joining some random person to kill a quest mob then disbanding the group after? </p>
<p>I would say most friendships you form online aren&#8217;t 100% true, but then I would say the same thing for real life. </p>
<p>Living a lie isn&#8217;t a good way to live. You can live a lie in a game just as easily as you can in RL. Hopefully everyone out there has someone they can turn to in a time of need&#8230; whether that person is offline or online.</p>
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		<title>By: Caliburn Susanto</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2009/06/29/the-philosophy-of-friendship/comment-page-1/#comment-8267</link>
		<dc:creator>Caliburn Susanto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=908#comment-8267</guid>
		<description>Ah, only a matter of time before that was brought up. But you are talking about after the fact, I am talking about before.  My premise is that automatically distrusting someone or assuming they are up to no good because they choose pseudo-anonymity online is insulting. And it's counter to the online (or avatarian, if you will) culture which is BASED on pseudo-anonymity.

And PSEUDO-anonymity is the point. If someone in WoW or SL cheated me out of few dollars well, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. But if I chose to trust them and they cheated me out of enough to warrent jailtime or a lawsuit I would find them easily. Or rather my lawyer would.

People go into virtual worlds for amusement and entertainment as well as for larceny, this is true. But in-person knowledge is never a deterrent to a criminal, only to a basically honest person who has a moment of temptation to be dishonest. What your argument implies is that being pseudo-anonymous will increase an honest person's temptation to be dishonest. I can't quote statistics, so I can't refute you; but I don't believe it. 

My orginal point is that people online as avatars are still themselves, honest or not, but assuming that the lack of "goods" (which is what that teacher said, "get the goods on them first - either openly or secretively") makes someone automatically suspect is erroneous.

And, to stay on topic, makes them no less of a valued friend or companion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, only a matter of time before that was brought up. But you are talking about after the fact, I am talking about before.  My premise is that automatically distrusting someone or assuming they are up to no good because they choose pseudo-anonymity online is insulting. And it&#8217;s counter to the online (or avatarian, if you will) culture which is BASED on pseudo-anonymity.</p>
<p>And PSEUDO-anonymity is the point. If someone in WoW or SL cheated me out of few dollars well, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. But if I chose to trust them and they cheated me out of enough to warrent jailtime or a lawsuit I would find them easily. Or rather my lawyer would.</p>
<p>People go into virtual worlds for amusement and entertainment as well as for larceny, this is true. But in-person knowledge is never a deterrent to a criminal, only to a basically honest person who has a moment of temptation to be dishonest. What your argument implies is that being pseudo-anonymous will increase an honest person&#8217;s temptation to be dishonest. I can&#8217;t quote statistics, so I can&#8217;t refute you; but I don&#8217;t believe it. </p>
<p>My orginal point is that people online as avatars are still themselves, honest or not, but assuming that the lack of &#8220;goods&#8221; (which is what that teacher said, &#8220;get the goods on them first - either openly or secretively&#8221;) makes someone automatically suspect is erroneous.</p>
<p>And, to stay on topic, makes them no less of a valued friend or companion.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2009/06/29/the-philosophy-of-friendship/comment-page-1/#comment-8266</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=908#comment-8266</guid>
		<description>@Caliburn Susanto 

You put forth a very compelling and fascinating point of view. I don't necessarily disagree with it but I would like to counter something you said.

"...there is NO good reason not to accept the persona at face value..."

Actually, there is a rather compelling reason not to accept someone's persona at face value - lack of consequences. There are very few, if any, consequences in the virtual world for breaking the 'law'. For example, if someone in WoW or Second Life or whatever took payment for something but didn't deliver, what would happen? You could certainly complain to the developers (who would do nothing) or launch a smear campaign against the individual but ultimately nothing of actual consequence is going to occur. However, in the real world, that person could end up in jail... a huge deterrent. Thus, you can - with a reasonable degree of certainty - trust people in the real world more than the virtual one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Caliburn Susanto </p>
<p>You put forth a very compelling and fascinating point of view. I don&#8217;t necessarily disagree with it but I would like to counter something you said.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;there is NO good reason not to accept the persona at face value&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, there is a rather compelling reason not to accept someone&#8217;s persona at face value - lack of consequences. There are very few, if any, consequences in the virtual world for breaking the &#8216;law&#8217;. For example, if someone in WoW or Second Life or whatever took payment for something but didn&#8217;t deliver, what would happen? You could certainly complain to the developers (who would do nothing) or launch a smear campaign against the individual but ultimately nothing of actual consequence is going to occur. However, in the real world, that person could end up in jail&#8230; a huge deterrent. Thus, you can - with a reasonable degree of certainty - trust people in the real world more than the virtual one.</p>
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		<title>By: JC</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2009/06/29/the-philosophy-of-friendship/comment-page-1/#comment-8265</link>
		<dc:creator>JC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=908#comment-8265</guid>
		<description>In the case presented above with 2 made-up personas talking to each other.... IMO the relationship the personas have is real, but since the personas aren't real, there's nothing more -- the relationship itself is "virtual."

If, however, the people present themselves as they truly are, then any relationship is a real one, even if the only interaction is actually online.

FWIW, playing online with my IRL friends is a way of increasing the IRL relationship as well -- it allows us to "hang out" more often but without needing to hire babysitters, travel time is eliminated, cost of dinner/drinks/movie/admission is eliminated thus enabling the "more often" part as well.  Beyond whatever other commanalities we have that make us friends in the 1st place, we also have the shared experience(s) in the online world as well.

Win-win, methinks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the case presented above with 2 made-up personas talking to each other&#8230;. IMO the relationship the personas have is real, but since the personas aren&#8217;t real, there&#8217;s nothing more &#8212; the relationship itself is &#8220;virtual.&#8221;</p>
<p>If, however, the people present themselves as they truly are, then any relationship is a real one, even if the only interaction is actually online.</p>
<p>FWIW, playing online with my IRL friends is a way of increasing the IRL relationship as well &#8212; it allows us to &#8220;hang out&#8221; more often but without needing to hire babysitters, travel time is eliminated, cost of dinner/drinks/movie/admission is eliminated thus enabling the &#8220;more often&#8221; part as well.  Beyond whatever other commanalities we have that make us friends in the 1st place, we also have the shared experience(s) in the online world as well.</p>
<p>Win-win, methinks.</p>
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