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	<title>Comments on: Permadeath: Would It Work?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2010/04/05/permadeath-would-it-work/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2010/04/05/permadeath-would-it-work/</link>
	<description>A blog about MMORPGs like World of Warcraft (WoW) and Everquest 2 (EQ2)</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 16 Jun 2013 15:56:21 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: War3 Critic</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2010/04/05/permadeath-would-it-work/comment-page-1/#comment-55652</link>
		<dc:creator>War3 Critic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:04:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=4411#comment-55652</guid>
		<description>Hi Gordon,

I also developped MMOs (and others games) in my head and i like to imagine the fun quantity i would have playing this, how dirty i would play to be the best survivor.

I had exactly same ideas, really, even for the inheritance aspect, also a game like this need PvE too, not only PVP, in order to make people kill &quot;innocents&quot; who are hunting bears, wolves or harvesting lumber for their awesome craft etc...

Have a look to the mod DayZ on Armada 2, i also had a similar idea to this but i didn&#039;t know it was possible to play with 200 players on a game which is not a MMORPG so this mod looks awesome</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Gordon,</p>
<p>I also developped MMOs (and others games) in my head and i like to imagine the fun quantity i would have playing this, how dirty i would play to be the best survivor.</p>
<p>I had exactly same ideas, really, even for the inheritance aspect, also a game like this need PvE too, not only PVP, in order to make people kill &#8220;innocents&#8221; who are hunting bears, wolves or harvesting lumber for their awesome craft etc&#8230;</p>
<p>Have a look to the mod DayZ on Armada 2, i also had a similar idea to this but i didn&#8217;t know it was possible to play with 200 players on a game which is not a MMORPG so this mod looks awesome</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2010/04/05/permadeath-would-it-work/comment-page-1/#comment-23596</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 21:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=4411#comment-23596</guid>
		<description>I like it :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like it <img src='http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/wp-content/plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: The dude</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2010/04/05/permadeath-would-it-work/comment-page-1/#comment-23577</link>
		<dc:creator>The dude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=4411#comment-23577</guid>
		<description>Also ... a key idea to think about is quick loading for a permaD server. If you die ... and die alot... having excessive loads/character creations will start to ware down players from restarting. If you added a &quot;use previous created settings&quot; so a player could quickly restart and join in the game after death with a character exactly like their old one, just but without any items/exp/or skills would greatly increase a players willingness to restart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also &#8230; a key idea to think about is quick loading for a permaD server. If you die &#8230; and die alot&#8230; having excessive loads/character creations will start to ware down players from restarting. If you added a &#8220;use previous created settings&#8221; so a player could quickly restart and join in the game after death with a character exactly like their old one, just but without any items/exp/or skills would greatly increase a players willingness to restart.</p>
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		<title>By: The dude</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2010/04/05/permadeath-would-it-work/comment-page-1/#comment-23576</link>
		<dc:creator>The dude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=4411#comment-23576</guid>
		<description>A simple solution to the perma death would be to have two servers. One which has PermaD and the other that doesn&#039;t but has a step back approach for dieing.
This would offer the hardcore and the casual players the chance to play the same game but with their own discretion for the challenge. 

Obviously if you die ... that sucks. In the step back approach you should simply lose a % of everything you have to ensure there is still a drawback to death (I believe a percent system is better than a set amount to help preserve balance from people who get too far ahead, and the further along you are the more you have to lose). But at least you wouldnt lose EVERYTHING. Say for example you are killed by a zombie you lose 25% Skill points/Money/Unlockable or what have you. You die from another hostile online player you lose 10%. If you die to a friendly you lose 5%. But you keep the same person and achievements and they are different from a perma death server.

Similar to the Blizzard &quot;PVP&quot; server and &quot;Normal&quot; server. However you cant create a toon on a normal and expect to transfer to PVP. There should be no transfers at all. To or from to preserve the value of success in the PermaD

Then you have your PermaD or &quot;Hard Core&quot; server. Create value for success. Like game announcements for players still alive and thriving. Or ingame advertisement like in EVE and the bounty system. Achievements/Leader boards would also be good and fill them with stats of how long someone was/is alive in different zones with zombies/players killed and tons of other random statistics kinda like in the game &quot;Time Splitters&quot;. The game logged even silly stuff like number of mellons cut, windows broken and distance run. 

One issue I thought about with the &#039;no communication&#039; in game is that friends will simply use 3rd party programs to communicate while they are playing. Which is unavoidable. So the &#039;solo&#039; until discovery is pretty much not possible. And the value of ingame communication is worthless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A simple solution to the perma death would be to have two servers. One which has PermaD and the other that doesn&#8217;t but has a step back approach for dieing.<br />
This would offer the hardcore and the casual players the chance to play the same game but with their own discretion for the challenge. </p>
<p>Obviously if you die &#8230; that sucks. In the step back approach you should simply lose a % of everything you have to ensure there is still a drawback to death (I believe a percent system is better than a set amount to help preserve balance from people who get too far ahead, and the further along you are the more you have to lose). But at least you wouldnt lose EVERYTHING. Say for example you are killed by a zombie you lose 25% Skill points/Money/Unlockable or what have you. You die from another hostile online player you lose 10%. If you die to a friendly you lose 5%. But you keep the same person and achievements and they are different from a perma death server.</p>
<p>Similar to the Blizzard &#8220;PVP&#8221; server and &#8220;Normal&#8221; server. However you cant create a toon on a normal and expect to transfer to PVP. There should be no transfers at all. To or from to preserve the value of success in the PermaD</p>
<p>Then you have your PermaD or &#8220;Hard Core&#8221; server. Create value for success. Like game announcements for players still alive and thriving. Or ingame advertisement like in EVE and the bounty system. Achievements/Leader boards would also be good and fill them with stats of how long someone was/is alive in different zones with zombies/players killed and tons of other random statistics kinda like in the game &#8220;Time Splitters&#8221;. The game logged even silly stuff like number of mellons cut, windows broken and distance run. </p>
<p>One issue I thought about with the &#8216;no communication&#8217; in game is that friends will simply use 3rd party programs to communicate while they are playing. Which is unavoidable. So the &#8217;solo&#8217; until discovery is pretty much not possible. And the value of ingame communication is worthless.</p>
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		<title>By: Influencing The Industry - We Fly Spitfires &#8211; MMORPG Blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2010/04/05/permadeath-would-it-work/comment-page-1/#comment-21496</link>
		<dc:creator>Influencing The Industry - We Fly Spitfires &#8211; MMORPG Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 22:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=4411#comment-21496</guid>
		<description>[...] if any developers or designers out there are enamored with my thoughts on permadeath, travel, community, localization, more community, the multicultural aspects of MMORPGs, zombies or [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] if any developers or designers out there are enamored with my thoughts on permadeath, travel, community, localization, more community, the multicultural aspects of MMORPGs, zombies or [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2010/04/05/permadeath-would-it-work/comment-page-1/#comment-16369</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=4411#comment-16369</guid>
		<description>Yeah, there would need to be a way of killing the character and not the time invested into the game because that would just be very off putting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, there would need to be a way of killing the character and not the time invested into the game because that would just be very off putting.</p>
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		<title>By: Wiqd</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2010/04/05/permadeath-would-it-work/comment-page-1/#comment-16339</link>
		<dc:creator>Wiqd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Apr 2010 16:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=4411#comment-16339</guid>
		<description>@Klep Again, I don&#039;t really think a &quot;leveling&quot; type system would work. You&#039;d need some kind of progression system, but character development isn&#039;t limited to simply &quot;gain XP -&gt; level&quot; systems. For a system like permadeath, we&#039;d definitely need to think outside the box.

Some of the things I&#039;ve thought of, including inheritance and legacies, is for fights that include the permadeath mechanic, as long as you actually win the battle, it doesn&#039;t matter if comrades fall in battle. You&#039;ll merely be decommissioned as opposed to dead OR if you win, the gods favor your party and help resurrect the fallen. If you fail, there is compensation. In  a futuristic world, if you die you can always use the &quot;clone&quot; option, unless the death is so horrible that there&#039;s nothing left to clone. 

There&#039;s definitely ways around the current systems, you just have to be creative about it. There&#039;s no need to play &quot;hand holding&quot; with MMO gamers; at least IMO. WoW does that perfectly fine. I&#039;d assume a game w/ permadeath included would be aimed at more core and hardcore MMO players anyway. It would fill a niche, methinks. If it got big, that&#039;s great, but I&#039;d aim for a niche, first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Klep Again, I don&#8217;t really think a &#8220;leveling&#8221; type system would work. You&#8217;d need some kind of progression system, but character development isn&#8217;t limited to simply &#8220;gain XP -&gt; level&#8221; systems. For a system like permadeath, we&#8217;d definitely need to think outside the box.</p>
<p>Some of the things I&#8217;ve thought of, including inheritance and legacies, is for fights that include the permadeath mechanic, as long as you actually win the battle, it doesn&#8217;t matter if comrades fall in battle. You&#8217;ll merely be decommissioned as opposed to dead OR if you win, the gods favor your party and help resurrect the fallen. If you fail, there is compensation. In  a futuristic world, if you die you can always use the &#8220;clone&#8221; option, unless the death is so horrible that there&#8217;s nothing left to clone. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s definitely ways around the current systems, you just have to be creative about it. There&#8217;s no need to play &#8220;hand holding&#8221; with MMO gamers; at least IMO. WoW does that perfectly fine. I&#8217;d assume a game w/ permadeath included would be aimed at more core and hardcore MMO players anyway. It would fill a niche, methinks. If it got big, that&#8217;s great, but I&#8217;d aim for a niche, first.</p>
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		<title>By: Klepsacovic</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2010/04/05/permadeath-would-it-work/comment-page-1/#comment-16317</link>
		<dc:creator>Klepsacovic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Apr 2010 21:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=4411#comment-16317</guid>
		<description>Characters would have to be cheap for perma-death to not be incredibly frustrating and rage-inducing.  Leveling would have to be a few days rather than weeks (I&#039;m referring to your average leveler, not a start-of-expansion hardcore grind) and level-capped advancement would have to be either limited or possibly in some form which could be saved, such as surviving raid members being able to pick your armor off your corpse and return it to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Characters would have to be cheap for perma-death to not be incredibly frustrating and rage-inducing.  Leveling would have to be a few days rather than weeks (I&#8217;m referring to your average leveler, not a start-of-expansion hardcore grind) and level-capped advancement would have to be either limited or possibly in some form which could be saved, such as surviving raid members being able to pick your armor off your corpse and return it to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Usiel</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2010/04/05/permadeath-would-it-work/comment-page-1/#comment-16273</link>
		<dc:creator>Usiel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Apr 2010 08:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=4411#comment-16273</guid>
		<description>From what I have seen so far, the willingness to support newcomer, depends on the investors attitude.

Those who ride the wave, try to hire names (not in the Lloyd&#039;s sense, Gordon) and expand common models. However there is a decent number of innovation supporters. Mostly in the communal or mutual sector.
For those you need to show a solid plan to realise your idea. These guys are used to see a lot of &quot;dreamers&quot; with wonderful ideas, but not the teeth to stay on them. 

Presenting your own calculation is a good way to show that you are capable to make your idea work.

Another possibility is, using a assembly line.
Studio A is financed for the project. Studio B and C are sub-contractors, B creating models and animation, while C works on environment. Both Studios deliver their products to Studio A, which pays them in transfer and assembles the project with said middle ware. The charm of this model is, that B and C do not need any finance, while A&#039;s Investor expects a lower risk. 

The rip of possibility, would be buying or licensing a game (hire a korean studio or buy from them) preferably created thorough middle ware and modify it accordingly. 
Buying a finished product is cheaper for an Investor, and the modification costs, are simply calculated to increase the acceptance of the product.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what I have seen so far, the willingness to support newcomer, depends on the investors attitude.</p>
<p>Those who ride the wave, try to hire names (not in the Lloyd&#8217;s sense, Gordon) and expand common models. However there is a decent number of innovation supporters. Mostly in the communal or mutual sector.<br />
For those you need to show a solid plan to realise your idea. These guys are used to see a lot of &#8220;dreamers&#8221; with wonderful ideas, but not the teeth to stay on them. </p>
<p>Presenting your own calculation is a good way to show that you are capable to make your idea work.</p>
<p>Another possibility is, using a assembly line.<br />
Studio A is financed for the project. Studio B and C are sub-contractors, B creating models and animation, while C works on environment. Both Studios deliver their products to Studio A, which pays them in transfer and assembles the project with said middle ware. The charm of this model is, that B and C do not need any finance, while A&#8217;s Investor expects a lower risk. </p>
<p>The rip of possibility, would be buying or licensing a game (hire a korean studio or buy from them) preferably created thorough middle ware and modify it accordingly.<br />
Buying a finished product is cheaper for an Investor, and the modification costs, are simply calculated to increase the acceptance of the product.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2010/04/05/permadeath-would-it-work/comment-page-1/#comment-16267</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Apr 2010 22:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=4411#comment-16267</guid>
		<description>The problem I feel with people becoming zombies is that I think many players would then commit suicide just to become one and suddenly it detracts from the point of the game and runs the risk of it just becoming a RvR PvP focused MMO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem I feel with people becoming zombies is that I think many players would then commit suicide just to become one and suddenly it detracts from the point of the game and runs the risk of it just becoming a RvR PvP focused MMO.</p>
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