SW:TOR’s Talent System – Outdated Already?

SW:TOR - Mirialan

A green human. One of SW:TOR's many exciting racial choices

As you may know, I’ve been avoiding the SW:TOR beta lately (and thus this entire post might be complete crap) but one thing I haven’t been able to avoid is reading a lot of information about the game. As much as I tried to resist, curiosity got the better of me and I started checking out the SW:TOR skill tree (aka talent) system to see if I could decide what class I wanted to play. Suffice to say, I was pretty shocked at how outdated, inflexible and unoriginal it was.

Praise for World of Warcraft is not something I dish out easily (or frequently) but I do hold Blizzard’s designers in high regard for their constant attempts to try and make the game more enjoyable, reflected through choice and personal decision, rather than mindlessly following pre-set configurations. The forthcoming revamp of the talent system in Mists of Pandaria is a perfect example of this. They’ve concluded, and rightly so, that traditional talent trees don’t work because you just end up with a bunch of ‘must have’ skills that everyone picks and then only a slight variation in everyone’s build after that. Being 2% better at swords than someone else is unnoticeable and, frankly, pointless.

So yeah, I’m all up for Blizzard’s new take on talents and look forward to making meaningful decisions rather than just filling out talent trees as another form of reward driven gamification. And it’s with that in mind that I feel slightly disheartened when I explore SW:TOR’s skill trees. Aside from having a class specialisation system (which is really just like the old class archetype system that games such as EQ2 employed and then ditched… but I digress) that you can’t change once you’ve picked anyway, the skill trees are incredibly similar in set up to WoW’s talent system. Y’know, the system that Blizzard are now abandoning.

Playing around with the Commando skill tree (one of the classes I’m thinking about playing at launch), for instance, reveals very little room for differentiating oneself from everyone else… kinda the entire point of any sort of talent system. Assuming I want to obtain the highest level skill in Gunnery, I spend 31 out of 41 points in the tree and end up with only six possible points unaccounted for. Essentially the only difference between my character and another of the same spec would be 6% aim, 2% endurance and a 30% Full Auto crit damage bonus. Wow, how exciting.

That was sarcasm, by the way.

Again, I haven’t played SW:TOR yet so maybe I’m entirely off the mark here but they do seem to have fallen into the same trap as oh so many other MMOs by copying existing mechanics from other games without really thinking about why they should exist in the first place. Talent systems shouldn’t be about having a slightly higher passive effectiveness in one skill area than another but about customising the way you play and differentiating yourself from everyone else.

I’m sure SW:TOR is great, it looks fun and no doubt I will enjoy it but I can’t help but feel that maybe Bioware should’ve funnelled some of the cash they spent on voice overs into game design instead.

-Gordon

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58 Comments

  1. Azuriel says:

    I have not played the beta past level 11 on any one character, but I had the exact same impression as you. It is not just that they cut & pasted WoW’s talent system, but they cut and pasted old WoW’s talent system. The first ten talent choices for a Commando, for example, are all passive bonuses. Woo…hoo?

    I had enjoyed Cataclysm’s talent system where each spec got a signature ability right at level 10, but I had not fully understood how absolutely amazing it was until I saw other games not do it. I can’t really get excited about the capstone talents I won’t see until 30 levels from now, and in the meantime I have no real indication about which spec I think would be fun to play. What’s the real difference between a Gunnery and Assault Specialist? I have no idea.

    • Gordon says:

      I think people underestimate Blizzard and the time and attention they put into crafting their game. It’s very easy to slate Wow for being ‘easy’ or ‘dumbed down’ but, in reality, they probably give their mechanics more attention than any other MMO out there.

  2. Bootae says:

    All told I was happy with SWTOR from the beta test, enough that I’ll do a few months in it at least. However I agree totally the talent system is very flat, dull and uninspiring. Particularly when you consider what RIFT did and what WoW is now doing.

  3. bhagpuss says:

    Good point on the Archetype system being similar to the old-school EQ2 version. I spotted that too. That was deeply unpopular with most EQ2 players (although sod’s law dictates that some people cried that the sky was falling when it got removed). Most people want to play the class they want to play from the get-go, not wait even 10 levels for it.

    Have you considered, however, that the game designers must be at least as aware of all this as we are? They probably all played most of these games and if they didn’t they will have been told about them. I’m guessing that things are designed this way deliberately so as to allow for later “improvements”. It’s like buying your kid shoes two sizes too big so he can grow into them.

    They know that whatever they do, once the honeymoon period is over 80% of the playerbase that expresses any opinion at all will be complaining. Equally, they know that during that honeymoon period players will accept almost anything. Building in intentional flaws allows them to appear to be reacting quickly to player complaints whereas actually the game is just proceeding along a predetermined course.

    Well, it’s either that or MMO devs are all really thick. Which I don’t believe.

    • Azuriel says:

      If MMO devs are truly cynical enough to believe they can put out intentionally bad talent systems and reap the goodwill that comes from improving it later, when there are already games in the market with more elegant systems, than they are really thick anyway.

      The honeymoon period doesn’t start until after the whole courtship and marriage bit. And, no, buying the game doesn’t count as marriage – it’s a date. Marriage to a game, much like IRL, doesn’t start until the first monthly payment.

    • Adam says:

      I’m certain that the game designers are aware of it. I am equally certain that management further up the chain made an “executive decision” to copy straight from WoW as they were too scared of taking a risk in case it backfired and they looked bad.
      I can just picture the devs shaking their heads after the inevitable session of pleading their case fell on deaf ears.

    • Gordon says:

      Argh yes, I hate archetypes systems. There’s nothing like putting me off a game than forcing me to play through the same 10 levels again just to experience a new class. I want to play the class I pick right from day 1.

      Interesting perspective on the designs process… I’m probably less cynical and just believe they aren’t really challenging the gameplay process, just copying it verbatim from something that already works.

  4. pkudude99 says:

    It’s worse than EQ2’s system in that the classes are perfect mirrors of each other across the factions too, so even if , for example, you want to play a Jedi Consular Shadow and a Sith Inquisitor Sorcerer, you still have to get through 10 levels of identical gameplay on either side before you can finally differentiate. It also doesn’t help in the case of those classes that the Shadow/Assassin is a melee rogue or tank while the Sorcerer/Sage is a pure caster healer/mage, so those 1st 10 levels where even your spells are limited to almost melee range doesn’t give you any sense of the mage-style gameplay. . . yeah, not the best.

    And from there your best passive for you spells come not from the tree devoted to those spells but from the shared tree. And just how the hell do you make a tree shared between a melee and a caster? From what I’ve seen so far, not well — most of the talents look like they’re caster talents anyway, so the melee class really only has 2 trees to use, not 3 and since it’s doubtful that the tanking tree will be very popular (and even less so since it’s a robe wearing class). . . . .seems the melee SI/JC will be a dps rogue and that’s it.

    I’m sure similar issues are happening with the other classes too, but I’ve focused most on Shadow and Sorcerer in the beta (in order to not spoil my Commando 1st character for myself), and. . yeah, it’s pretty severe. Doesn’t help that (for me, at least) the nearest/next enemy targeting is bugged and doesn’t work at all. I hate click-targeting. . . .

  5. rb3m says:

    I agree. I’ve played with the beta as well and find it pretty much as you describe. The main storyline for each class is good, but there’s very little you can do to make the character really feel your own. Even your companion looks like everyone else’s (at least in the first levels).

    I miss Galaxies (pre-combat update 2).

  6. Carson says:

    Like Rift, SW:TOR makes the mistake of cloning WoW without cloning the seven years of refinements. It’s a clone of WoW in 2004.

    I hadn’t looked at the talent trees until now, and I’m frankly boggled at how derivative they are of WoW circa 2004 – I always felt SW:TOR was a highly unoriginal piece of work, but for the first time, I honestly have to point at it and say “lol, Alganon”.

    Three trees per class. New layer of talents available every 5 points. Single-point talents you can buy at 11, 21 and 31 that actually add new abilities rather than improving existing ones. THIS IS ALGANON. They have copied WoW down to the minutest detail, and then the one change than Alganon made – turning the tree upside-down so the first available talents are at the bottom of the window, and you buy upwards.

    Shameful and shameless at the same time, Bioware.

  7. Gazimoff says:

    As I said in my first impressions roundup, the talent trees are one of the more disappointing aspects of SWTOR. There seems to be very little fresh game design, instead focusing heavily on the story aspect (almost to the exclusion of the Massively part of the MMO).

    I have other gripes, but you’ll find out about them soon enough…

  8. ScytheNoire says:

    How quickly people forget.

    I remember when WoW first came out every one was complaining how it ripped of this game and that game and nothing was original. And all that was sort of true, but it’s not a rip off, it’s simply what the genre is. You don’t reinvent the wheel, you just make a better wheel. And that is what BioWare has done by adding story and a full voiced game. That’s what makes SWTOR stand out above the other MMO’s and what will draw millions to the game.

    Is the talent system outdated? A little, but it’s not different than dozens of other games that follow the same structure. They can and will change things over time, just as Blizzard has done. And there are plenty of other things to fix. But it’s a great game in it’s current form and will only get better.

    People simply seem to forget that WoW, much like ourselves, wasn’t born in it’s current state, but grew that way over many years. SWTOR will do the same.

    • Imakulata says:

      I don’t think Gordon complained about SW:TOR ripping WoW, he complained about taking a feature that was not good. I think two main complaints about original WoW’s talent tree were that many talents were not interesting (e. g. “deal more damage” or “deal more damage with spell X”) and that the difference between talents (see previous example) was not obvious, making a build a complex calculation and little choice. WoW’s proposed MoP talents take care of both by making sure the talents are either new skills or make difference on how a skill works and by getting rid of most of the calculations, trying to make the selection a choice. (It remains to be seen how well does it work.) SW:TOR doesn’t address either complaint.

      As for WoW starting the same, remember that WoW developers are not afraid to make huge changes before it’s clear the game is struggling because of its old age. I don’t remember many games implementing a change in scale of Cataclysm before it was clear they were bleeding subscribers. SW:TOR might join WoW in being exception to the rule but then again, it might not.

      • Gordon says:

        My main issue is that SW:TOR seems to have implemented a talent system that is outdated and lacks thought and innovation whereas WoW is making leaps forward by trying to increase flexibility and freedom of choice for players.

    • Gordon says:

      “People simply seem to forget that WoW, much like ourselves, wasn’t born in it’s current state, but grew that way over many years. ”

      Although WoW was unoriginal in its main concept, it did refine and innovate on a lot of features. For instance, it was the first MMO to really push the talent system as a form of alternative advancement from early game. Since then, every other MMO has basically copied its talent system almost completely.

      • James says:

        Actually, Asheron’s Call 2 invented the talent tree system in 2002, and it was more integral to your character than the talent tree system in WoW; you had virtually 0 abilities without going into talents, or skills, as they were called in AC2. I really wish people would stop assuming WoW invented everything. Here, check out the Lugian (one of the races of AC2) skill calculator to see who was REALLY first.

        http://ac2vault.ign.com/races/xpcalc.html?lugian-records.js

        Look familiar?

  9. Polynices says:

    You’ve described SWTOR in a nutshell. I’m going to play it and enjoy it (for a month at least) but it very obviously had a very unambitious design document. It feels like they went for feature lock way too many years ago while working on the content and missed several years of MMO design.

  10. Klepsacovic says:

    Wasn’t WoW of 2004 pretty popular, to the point that if broke predictions of the possible size of the MMO market? Maybe the terribly boring passive talents are just fine for new players, which might be what ToR is aiming for. So too bad for all the WoW players; it’s not actually for them.

    • Shintar says:

      This. To be honest I think many people overrate the importance of talent points as something that has to be unique and fun gameplay anyway. Unless I’m really the only MMO player who likes to just plunk some points into whatever looks useful while levelling and would be happy to never have to worry about them again afterwards.

      • Gordon says:

        To reiterative my previous response, if a mechanic in game (any game) does nothing than provide a meaningless distraction, why even bother to have it? If talents are just throw away additions to players then they probably shouldn’t even exist.

        • Shintar says:

          I didn’t say it was meaningless. It provides a pacing mechanism while levelling and makes me think about my character’s abilities and how she’s developing… but once I’ve hit max level, she’s mostly done with that. I don’t really understand the recent trend towards making talents something that means having to reinvent your character over and over and over again in the name of making different choices. It’s not very roleplay-friendly either IMO. :/

    • Gordon says:

      I disagree – I think good design appeals to everyone no matter their background. Otherwise it’s like saying that making a FPS where you can’t look using the mouse (i.e. original Doom style) is fine for everyone who has never played a FPS before.

  11. Jonathon says:

    Here’s my take on it…I’m really surprised that anyone is surprised by the Talent system launching the way it is. You know, what with y’all being MMO Bloggos and whatnot.

    SWTOR’s been in development for **five years**

    Cataclysm came out **1** year ago, and Rift came out **last spring**

    So…SWTOR had 4 years in which to chart a course that resembled, in general, WoW of the 2009/2010 period. Yes, I believe the developers saw, and compared to both Rift, and the Cataclysm changes to WoW – and I believe they’re now looking at Blizzard’s changes to “talents” for Pandaria – but when you’ve got a product that’s got such an incredibly long development lifecycle, you’re not really in a position to leap from this horse to that one mid stream.

    I would expect to see a “Talent Tree Revamp” 12 months from now – possibly (but not probably) sooner. I imagine that there is an effort underway to lay the groundwork for ‘modernizing’ to match the competition even as the polish is being put on the product that’s going to go out the door.

    It’s just a fact of copycat MMO-life that you will never be on parity with your competition – you’ll always be one life cycle (however long that is) behind them on the stuff that they innovate, and you’ll likely be one life cycle ahead of them on the stuff that you’ve innovated.

    The biggest (and weirdest) impression that my weekend with the Beta left me is…how much like Star Trek Online it resembled (but in a good way…)

  12. vortalism says:

    I don’t care how much crap Blizzard gets from people (including their own fan-base /facepalm) they really put a lot of effort in making MMOs more enjoyable. If it weren’t for them I probably wouldn’t be playing MMOs at all. The MoP talent system really shows how much care and attention they put in to their games, especially WoW (not to say they didn’t do that for Starcraft 2, but this is a MMO blog – I guess :P ).

    I think that this level of “screw it, let’s do it OUR way” attitude really has helped them define the genre and continue to do so, if Blizzard continues this approach to their gaming, then WoW is certainly not dead. I also don’t mind relearning the game every so often, it keeps things fresh :) .

    • vortalism says:

      SW:TOR’s talent system is a prime example of Bioware not really understanding how a MMO works. WoW’s talent trees from 2004 – 09 will not cut it. I guess if Bhagpuss is right and Bioware actually does suddenly make improvements throughout next year or so, people won’t really care because despite what many say: First Impressions Matter. SW:TOR may or may not make that recovery. I’d like to see them pull it off though; haven’t seen a good Star Wars game in ages (well since Battlefront 2).

      This is when I begin to fantasize when Bethesda Softworks will make an Elder Scrolls MMO but that’s probably never going to happen.

    • Gordon says:

      “I think that this level of “screw it, let’s do it OUR way” attitude really has helped them define the genre”

      Absolutely.

  13. João Carlos says:

    Sincerelly, I think you are overthinking…

    When playing solo, what will most affect your gameplay is the companion you are using, not much the talent tree. The talent tree will affect mostly when you are grouping with other players.

    SWTOR’s strong point is the story, how each class have a diferent story and the voice system just make it more visible.

    SWTOR will be the heaven for playrs that like to play a lot of alts.

    And take note that the decision you make at the covenrsations with NPCs have consequencies, but that is not visible at level 10:
    1- you can get light or dark side points, and that score affects not only the gear you can use but what quests you will have access (come quests open if you are dark side, other ones open if you are light side);
    2- some options will affect your standing with companions (and that change the companion behavior and it is not only for open “romance” options, quests too open with better standing);
    3- if you kill or not a NPC, the story will change (the NPC not killed can return for revenge or for help you or for give some quests; and if you kill the NPC, the NPC’s daughter can come for kill you…).

    IMHO, that story metagame will be a lot more important for player retention than any lousy talent system…

  14. numtini says:

    Overall SWTOR comes off as a game that’s years out of date. I’m not at all convinced that the Panda talent system is an improvement, I rather liked the freestyle mix and match of Rift. But either way, unconfigurable UI, no dual spec and mediocre talents, the advanced class thing–there’s just so much here that feels half baked and old.

    It’s not a game I really was excited about because I don’t particularly like Star Wars as a game setting, but given the time for development and supposed budget, it’s just perplexing that the game seems so out of date.

  15. ogrebears says:

    I played 2 charters up to level 25 in the beta and enjoyed the game. The talent tree, ya is probably out dated and will probably be rethought after launch.

  16. Andrew says:

    Yeah Blizz are awesome it only took them 7 years to change the talent system

  17. [...] that Star Wars invocation isn’t an accident.  What of Star Wars: The Old Republic and the familiarity that it’s perhaps trying to invoke?  As Brian Green and others have noted, it’s largely “more of the same”, and can [...]

  18. Telwyn says:

    Although I can understand the criticisms of the old WoW talent system, I do not see the current system as better and consider Pandaran expansion revamp as even worse. Having one ‘choice’ every fifteen levels seems very minimalist however real that choice may be.

    Perhaps it’s my RPG background, I like leveling to be a slightly more involved process than just visiting the trainer for training. The proposed system for WoW 5.0 seems like yet another push in the ‘hurry up and level’ mentality of Blizzard. Leveling is already so streamlined in time taken, but also now in class complexity: talents every other level, fewer spells to train as they auto-scale.

    It’s easy to argue simplification of such ‘crunchy’ systems is good. But it doesn’t have to happen by simply removing them – DDO somehow managed to take a much more complex character building ruleset and gave two parallel options. You can level up in fine detail using the full ruleset, or you can chose a ‘path’, which is similar to a cookie-cutter build and every level your character auto-progresses down that path. That way those who hate numbers can ignore them, and those who want to fine tune and see the details of the system can have their fun…

  19. Tim Dean says:

    I’ve never understood why so many talents give such piddly benefits. I mean 3% extra damage with a weapon/spell/ability. Pfff. Imagine if it gave 30% extra damage.

    I mean, it’s not like it could be unbalanced if *everyone* has access to such talents. It would only help define and differentiate particular classes and builds.

    And why have one static build, anyway? I dig the move towards multiple specialist builds, or even systems where you have to ration powers, like Guild Wars. Adds a strategic layer, and allows moving between roles.

    To me, it’s fairly simple: make people feel powerful, give them choices, give them flexibility without making them jacks of all trades. And if you don’t have an explicitly alt-friendly game like City of Heroes, then make their main more flexible (but not homogenous).

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  21. Ardenya says:

    I have to agree with João Carlos here as in many people are overvalueing the importance and impact of a talent system for a game like TOR. Although I give credit to critics concerning the lack of innovation, I don’t think it has great weight in the given context.

    I think that many people are going into TOR under wrong impressions. A brief look at the official forums clearly shows that many people are disappointed by TOR not being as sandboxy, not having high-end BF3 grafics or not featuring a free skill system to completely customize a character as they wish for. If you don’t recognize the game for what it is but focus on what it could have been instead, then you won’t be happy with it long-term.

    Firstly, people need to understand that “hardcore”, 10-year MMO veterans are not Bioware’s primary target audience. They have realized that WoW has largely been as successful since it drew in a whole new demographic – people who have not played a MMORPG ever before. Bioware is attempting to do the same – with great success as far as I can tell from watching the forum community. They focused development on gameplay features that – although being the norm in modern single-player games – simply were not part in MMORPGs yet: strong, fully voiced narrative with voiced main characters, companion characters for the player to influence, choices not only in terms of gear but also for storyline and general questing, just to name a few.

    This is where the true innovation – for the genre! – comes into the equation. On the other hand, despite shortcomings e.g. in guild functionalities, TOR comes with all familiar features that most of us enjoyed in other MMOs. The maybe not so obvious result of this design is that as I was playing the beta all the underlying gameplay mechanics come so naturally for MMO vets like many of you and myself that one can fully focus on the actual content.

    Also, lets be fair for a moment. I guess it’s safe to assume that many here enjoyed TES for the flexible, skill-based character development. And yet, with Skyrim coming out with all the same skill system, although streamlined, as in Oblivion I don’t see people complaining about lack of innovation. Talent points in Skyrim are a new addition to the series but are as old as RPGs themselves.

    Yet, character development is where Skyrim design really shines, in my opinion. It allows the player to dabble into everything right away without restrictions in form of skill requirements but also provides to possiblity to develop your character to reflect your playstyle naturally. And you know what? The design of TOR isn’t that far off.

    Keep in mind that TOR is largly targetted at people new to MMOs, for which I could provide examples but refrain as not to expand this comment even further, bare with me here please. This being said, the first 10 levels, before you choose your AC, where everyone is basically a DPS class with different tricks, animations and sounds, are a tutorial, plain and simple. Although it says “Advanced” class, when you pick it thats truly your character class not the base one you start as. Now don’t forget that almost all abilites you recieve as you level and use come not only from your AC but also from your base class and not from talent trees. As you get access to the trees you are given the possiblity to tweak and improve you basic tools (abilites) to reflect a certain playstyle. Taking Jedi Shadow as example, one might spec into a tree to focus on DoTs or another to focus on crit DPS instead.

    Finally – and I promise this will be the closing paragraph – myself coming from EQ, I greatly despise the current trend in MMOs of giving the player douzens and douzens of different active abilities and spells to organize in multiple hotbars, best to be experienced in EQ2 or Rift. To me, giving the player a multitude of spells to choose from but only 8 – 10 to be usuable at any given time as EQ did it, is a much more enjoyable experience. Therefore, I am very happy to see that talent trees in TOR are almost exclusively passive abilities to improve existing active ones instead of overwhelming the player and cluttering up hotbars with buttons, often used situational only.

    Coming to an end, let me say that I honestly respect your critic and opinions about TOR. It surely won’t be a game for everyone and not all of those who will be playing during their free month will stay with the game long-term. Yet, I can’t emphasize enough how important it is for everyone to at least try the game and play a character up until 20 – 25 before forming an opinion. Believe me when I say that no review, video, stream or whatever other medium can fully transport the gameplay that you experience yourself. Like in Dragon Age or Mass Effect, when playing TOR I don’t really care about my level our how much exp I got from that mob I just killed. I do care about my character though, the decisions *he* (or *she*) makes and how the story develops.

    Ask yourself, how many MMOs have you played where you could say that?

    • João Carlos says:

      “They have realized that WoW has largely been as successful since it drew in a whole new demographic – people who have not played a MMORPG ever before. Bioware is attempting to do the same – with great success as far as I can tell from watching the forum community.”

      That is an important point. SWTOR wiull have a lot of players that are 1) SW fans and 2) KOTOR fans and 3) Bioware fans. These guys problably never played a MMO before.

      Basically, SWTOR is expanding the MMO market, as WoW made it, a lot of players come to MMO because WoW was from a warcraft series and a Blizzard game.

      These new MMO players will not look for a more advanced skill system or a revolutionary game system. And remeber, revolutions frequently fail, and it is an epic fail.

      • Gordon says:

        Like I said in response to Ardenya, eventually (maybe not now) everyone will have tried a MMO at some point and will expect revolutionary gameplay. There’s only so long MMOs can keep going with dishing out the same functionality over and over again.

    • Gordon says:

      Awesome reply, Ardenya, thanks for taking the time to write it!

      A lot of good points in there but I guess the main one that stands out for me is the one about “Keep in mind that TOR is largly targetted at people new to MMOs”.

      Thing is, MMOs are becoming more and more popular and commonplace so I think the days of people being ‘new’ to MMOs will soon be over. Eventually they will be like any other gaming genre and people will expect certain gameplay elements and aspects, judging the game on its innovation and execution. Indeed SW:TOR looks to be amazing from a story point of view (can’t wait to try it) but in other areas (like the talent system) it looks dated and I don’t think we can count on the fact that players will be new to that concept for very much longer. Soon everyone who plays MMOs will be used to talent systems and expect them to be a bit more exciting and engaging than what SW:TOR is currently offering.

  22. [...] was announced, but it wasn’t until the subject was being discussed in the the comments of my last post that I started to ask myself exactly what I was expecting from it. To have fun, for sure, but what [...]

  23. SWTOR_Bob says:

    The talent trees and skill trainers were my “oh my wtf” moment. All these cool features and innovation, and we’re stuck with the same old system. I was disappointed. To myself, it is one of the few warts on the game.

    That said, other than that I’ve had a ball in beta, and look forward to retail.

  24. Aaron says:

    One problem with SW:TOR is that there really isn’t much SW in the mix — it’s HARDLY a Star Wars game. It just doesn’t have that Star Wars feel to it like SWG did in the same way that the prequel trilogy doesn’t have it like the original trilogy does.

    The food may look pretty, but if it’s not delicious in its own right, nobody will eat it.

    A video GAME isn’t much of a GAME when the GAME MECHANICS are lacking depth. TOR makes mockery of MMO Game Theory, something any –> MMO <– player with common sense and a working brain can imagine themselves, even without regard to games of the past.

    The idea of an MMO came about before the MMO did. The egg must have been laid before the chicken could break out of it and walk — or in some cases, fly. The fact that TOR is replacing SWG, a video game that truly respected, and even revered if not revolutionized and freshened MMO Game Theory, makes us Star Wars fans pretty sad.

    SOE may have made their mistakes, but the final model of the game on its closing day was closer akin to the theoretically "perfect MMO" than any game on the market now could ever hope to be.

    TOR just sucks, IMO. It's frikin boring if you're a gamer who wants a dynamic multiplayer experience. It's sad to see another themepark game being put out by a company with the developer power to make something groundbreaking.

  25. Edwin says:

    I agree your points gordon but I didn’t played this game.

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