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	<title>Comments on: Tanking &#8211; A Dying Mechanic?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/10/14/tanking-a-dying-mechanic/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/10/14/tanking-a-dying-mechanic/</link>
	<description>A blog about MMORPGs like World of Warcraft (WoW) and Everquest 2 (EQ2)</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 08:46:34 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Imakulata</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/10/14/tanking-a-dying-mechanic/comment-page-1/#comment-57828</link>
		<dc:creator>Imakulata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2012 16:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10711#comment-57828</guid>
		<description>The roles are not a tool for socializing; there is an assumption you make and that&#039;s thinking a group who misses someone who plays class X or can perform role Y will usually try to recruit new members who can play the class/role - it does happen but usually they just have someone take an alt or simply solo until someone who can play the class/role logs on.

As for the class homogenization, roles were actually first step (or one of first steps) - and I have to say they were welcome by me (as a player who prefers playing a single character instead of alts).

The problem with old, especially pre-trinity, model is that it&#039;s much better if everybody&#039;s viable in any setting but nobody&#039;s required. Even when I could get groups despite not being viable - standing around looking pretty and leeching XP off others wasn&#039;t my idea of fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The roles are not a tool for socializing; there is an assumption you make and that&#8217;s thinking a group who misses someone who plays class X or can perform role Y will usually try to recruit new members who can play the class/role &#8211; it does happen but usually they just have someone take an alt or simply solo until someone who can play the class/role logs on.</p>
<p>As for the class homogenization, roles were actually first step (or one of first steps) &#8211; and I have to say they were welcome by me (as a player who prefers playing a single character instead of alts).</p>
<p>The problem with old, especially pre-trinity, model is that it&#8217;s much better if everybody&#8217;s viable in any setting but nobody&#8217;s required. Even when I could get groups despite not being viable &#8211; standing around looking pretty and leeching XP off others wasn&#8217;t my idea of fun.</p>
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		<title>By: Eki</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/10/14/tanking-a-dying-mechanic/comment-page-1/#comment-57810</link>
		<dc:creator>Eki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2012 13:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10711#comment-57810</guid>
		<description>Well how does this fit with the complete revamp of tanking mechanics with mists?

Blizz obviously invested dev-time to counter the &quot;boring-ish&quot; nature of tanking, that for me states that blizz actually DOES care. 

I think a lot of the reason why people would not play a tank is because they are only needed in the &quot;endgame&quot;, while blowing up stuff is essentially useful everywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well how does this fit with the complete revamp of tanking mechanics with mists?</p>
<p>Blizz obviously invested dev-time to counter the &#8220;boring-ish&#8221; nature of tanking, that for me states that blizz actually DOES care. </p>
<p>I think a lot of the reason why people would not play a tank is because they are only needed in the &#8220;endgame&#8221;, while blowing up stuff is essentially useful everywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Milady</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/10/14/tanking-a-dying-mechanic/comment-page-1/#comment-57793</link>
		<dc:creator>Milady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 15:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10711#comment-57793</guid>
		<description>My concerns started when it was announced that GW2 would support a trinity-less gameplay, which had different meanings for different people. To me, it bespoke of a role-less system, and that I was not so keen on. Roles, such as tanking, healing, or whichever function they come up with, allow people to perform for others and to adjust to their fellow players&#039; playstyles. They are a tool for socialising, since there will always be a role you cannot perform, and which you need others to carry out for you. 

The question is not merely the fact that tanking is not fun, or that it has been degraded or pushed out because of its unpopularity. If we do away with the nuances of the role system, such as that there is specific gear for tanks (as there used to be for healers), the game becomes homogenized even further, when there is no longer a point in playing one class over the other except for flavour, since they are all given the same basic tools. 

But I digress a bit - I agree with you, tanks are in decline, and nobody cares, especially not Blizzard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My concerns started when it was announced that GW2 would support a trinity-less gameplay, which had different meanings for different people. To me, it bespoke of a role-less system, and that I was not so keen on. Roles, such as tanking, healing, or whichever function they come up with, allow people to perform for others and to adjust to their fellow players&#8217; playstyles. They are a tool for socialising, since there will always be a role you cannot perform, and which you need others to carry out for you. </p>
<p>The question is not merely the fact that tanking is not fun, or that it has been degraded or pushed out because of its unpopularity. If we do away with the nuances of the role system, such as that there is specific gear for tanks (as there used to be for healers), the game becomes homogenized even further, when there is no longer a point in playing one class over the other except for flavour, since they are all given the same basic tools. </p>
<p>But I digress a bit &#8211; I agree with you, tanks are in decline, and nobody cares, especially not Blizzard.</p>
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		<title>By: klepsacovic</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/10/14/tanking-a-dying-mechanic/comment-page-1/#comment-57791</link>
		<dc:creator>klepsacovic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 13:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10711#comment-57791</guid>
		<description>Change is not a universal thing and it&#039;s stupid to just say &quot;things change&quot; without the slightest thought of what is changing, why, and whether we should resist it.  Change isn&#039;t some magical inevitable force going in a particular direction at all times.  We can change change.  Gravity keeps on pulling us down.  Air continues to be something we breath.  Cars change, but still do the same general thing of using gasoline, steering wheels, and roads to bring us somewhere else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Change is not a universal thing and it&#8217;s stupid to just say &#8220;things change&#8221; without the slightest thought of what is changing, why, and whether we should resist it.  Change isn&#8217;t some magical inevitable force going in a particular direction at all times.  We can change change.  Gravity keeps on pulling us down.  Air continues to be something we breath.  Cars change, but still do the same general thing of using gasoline, steering wheels, and roads to bring us somewhere else.</p>
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		<title>By: Ephemeron</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/10/14/tanking-a-dying-mechanic/comment-page-1/#comment-57787</link>
		<dc:creator>Ephemeron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 06:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10711#comment-57787</guid>
		<description>Challenge Modes are doable without a healer, but not without a tank.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Challenge Modes are doable without a healer, but not without a tank.</p>
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		<title>By: bernardparsnip</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/10/14/tanking-a-dying-mechanic/comment-page-1/#comment-57786</link>
		<dc:creator>bernardparsnip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 05:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10711#comment-57786</guid>
		<description>I think the trinity has a few more years left in it yet. At least for WoW.

The pure/hybrid division is likely to disappear first, with all classes receiving a tanking build.

The reason: the hybrid-less model actually turns out to not be a huge amount of fun when it comes to dungeon-running.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the trinity has a few more years left in it yet. At least for WoW.</p>
<p>The pure/hybrid division is likely to disappear first, with all classes receiving a tanking build.</p>
<p>The reason: the hybrid-less model actually turns out to not be a huge amount of fun when it comes to dungeon-running.</p>
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		<title>By: P@tsh@t</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/10/14/tanking-a-dying-mechanic/comment-page-1/#comment-57785</link>
		<dc:creator>P@tsh@t</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 05:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10711#comment-57785</guid>
		<description>Good topic.  What concerns me more than the death of the trinity as we know it is really the death of the roles in our role playing games. 

Tanking as we know it was built on the aggro mechanic--a far from perfect but convenient way to create a combat scenario that other roles could participate in-- healing, damage dealing, crowd control, buff/debuff, etc.  Now it&#039;s dps all the way down. 

These games used to be about figuring out how to maximize the synergy of a diverse group.  The progression has been to streamline the roles from 4-5+ to 3 and now effectively toward one. 

Why not make every instance an escort quest where the npc just tanks for the group?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good topic.  What concerns me more than the death of the trinity as we know it is really the death of the roles in our role playing games. </p>
<p>Tanking as we know it was built on the aggro mechanic&#8211;a far from perfect but convenient way to create a combat scenario that other roles could participate in&#8211; healing, damage dealing, crowd control, buff/debuff, etc.  Now it&#8217;s dps all the way down. </p>
<p>These games used to be about figuring out how to maximize the synergy of a diverse group.  The progression has been to streamline the roles from 4-5+ to 3 and now effectively toward one. </p>
<p>Why not make every instance an escort quest where the npc just tanks for the group?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeromai</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/10/14/tanking-a-dying-mechanic/comment-page-1/#comment-57784</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeromai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 05:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10711#comment-57784</guid>
		<description>Well, it depends on which aspects of tanking one likes. First in to the battle, tough to kill, controlling enemy positioning or completely grabbing all aggro from anything and everything. Everything but the latter can be replicated in GW2.

I identify with a lot of tanky traits. I love melee, like being situationally aware, love being sturdy and hard to put down, and supporting my friends by controlling the enemy. Been able to do that all on my Guardian so far. 

(I&#039;m a big fan of pushing WvW zergs to morale breaking point by flanking them, or being out just far enough that folks target me... then get a wall of reflection up in their face plus two spirit weapons, and I&#039;m back into the zerg to heal up. That almost always makes them backpedal just a little as the rest of one&#039;s group surges forward just a bit more. Chokepoint control is a great Guardian specialty that I haven&#039;t delved into much.)

I believe warriors might also have some of that tanky flavor with a lot more offense. And necromancers are crazy at having a huge hp reservoir for survival. Also met a nearly impossible to kill elementalist once, probably earth/arcane spec&#039;ed. 

Plenty of tank-likes, just no 100% guaranteed aggro control, which is awfully boring and cheaty easymode for dps if you think about it. I much rather have my fellow game players get smarter and play better, rather than end up being ungrateful entitled people ready to abuse someone self-sacrificing for them.

As for the aspect of being an egomaniac control freak wanting to make sure everyone is following them just so, doing stuff exactly how they want it,  it is also independent of one&#039;s class in GW2. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it depends on which aspects of tanking one likes. First in to the battle, tough to kill, controlling enemy positioning or completely grabbing all aggro from anything and everything. Everything but the latter can be replicated in GW2.</p>
<p>I identify with a lot of tanky traits. I love melee, like being situationally aware, love being sturdy and hard to put down, and supporting my friends by controlling the enemy. Been able to do that all on my Guardian so far. </p>
<p>(I&#8217;m a big fan of pushing WvW zergs to morale breaking point by flanking them, or being out just far enough that folks target me&#8230; then get a wall of reflection up in their face plus two spirit weapons, and I&#8217;m back into the zerg to heal up. That almost always makes them backpedal just a little as the rest of one&#8217;s group surges forward just a bit more. Chokepoint control is a great Guardian specialty that I haven&#8217;t delved into much.)</p>
<p>I believe warriors might also have some of that tanky flavor with a lot more offense. And necromancers are crazy at having a huge hp reservoir for survival. Also met a nearly impossible to kill elementalist once, probably earth/arcane spec&#8217;ed. </p>
<p>Plenty of tank-likes, just no 100% guaranteed aggro control, which is awfully boring and cheaty easymode for dps if you think about it. I much rather have my fellow game players get smarter and play better, rather than end up being ungrateful entitled people ready to abuse someone self-sacrificing for them.</p>
<p>As for the aspect of being an egomaniac control freak wanting to make sure everyone is following them just so, doing stuff exactly how they want it,  it is also independent of one&#8217;s class in GW2. <img src='http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/wp-content/plugins/tango-smilies/tango/face-smile.png' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/10/14/tanking-a-dying-mechanic/comment-page-1/#comment-57782</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 02:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10711#comment-57782</guid>
		<description>Do you really &quot;role on tank gear&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you really &#8220;role on tank gear&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/10/14/tanking-a-dying-mechanic/comment-page-1/#comment-57780</link>
		<dc:creator>Tesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 01:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10711#comment-57780</guid>
		<description>Y&#039;know, it may wound pithy and overgeneralized, but I suspect that there is a sizable chunk of MMO players who effectively started playing as teens and are now seeing their own lives change... and they don&#039;t quite embrace the &quot;live goes on&quot; mantra yet, just because that tends to be a perspective that comes with time and experience.  The MMO market is maturing, even if some of the players aren&#039;t, or are fighting it.

...which isn&#039;t to say that liking tanking is immature, of course.  I tend to think that good tanks have to be very mature, just as part of the job.  It&#039;s just that the market inevitably moves on, and these MMOs tend to bank on the promise of perpetuity... and there&#039;s a natural tension there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Y&#8217;know, it may wound pithy and overgeneralized, but I suspect that there is a sizable chunk of MMO players who effectively started playing as teens and are now seeing their own lives change&#8230; and they don&#8217;t quite embrace the &#8220;live goes on&#8221; mantra yet, just because that tends to be a perspective that comes with time and experience.  The MMO market is maturing, even if some of the players aren&#8217;t, or are fighting it.</p>
<p>&#8230;which isn&#8217;t to say that liking tanking is immature, of course.  I tend to think that good tanks have to be very mature, just as part of the job.  It&#8217;s just that the market inevitably moves on, and these MMOs tend to bank on the promise of perpetuity&#8230; and there&#8217;s a natural tension there.</p>
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