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	<title>Comments on: Is MMO Combat Really That Bad?</title>
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	<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/11/25/is-mmo-combat-really-that-bad/</link>
	<description>A blog about MMORPGs like World of Warcraft (WoW) and Everquest 2 (EQ2)</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 16 Jun 2013 15:56:21 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Do MMOs Make You Feel Old? &#124; We Fly Spitfires - MMORPG Blog</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/11/25/is-mmo-combat-really-that-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-58774</link>
		<dc:creator>Do MMOs Make You Feel Old? &#124; We Fly Spitfires - MMORPG Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2013 21:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10765#comment-58774</guid>
		<description>[...] I was used to be familiar with. Gameplay mechanics are altering too. Back in November I wrote about the mechanics of combat in MMO and how in a few short years it went from &#8216;auto attack and gossip&#8217; to &#8216;hammering [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I was used to be familiar with. Gameplay mechanics are altering too. Back in November I wrote about the mechanics of combat in MMO and how in a few short years it went from &#8216;auto attack and gossip&#8217; to &#8216;hammering [...]</p>
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		<title>By: AidanPryde</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/11/25/is-mmo-combat-really-that-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-58581</link>
		<dc:creator>AidanPryde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2013 00:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10765#comment-58581</guid>
		<description>I came here looking to see if others have the same sense of dissatisfaction I do about combat in MMOs.  You hit the nail on the head with your first paragraph.  I feel like all combat involves is staring at the hotbar, clicking buttons as quickly as I can to take down my foe.  I don&#039;t get to enjoy what&#039;s happening in the battle, because I am too busy watching cooldowns.  I love the combat in games like Fallout and FPS, and I think the difference is I get to observe and enjoy what is happening, rather than managing a dashboard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came here looking to see if others have the same sense of dissatisfaction I do about combat in MMOs.  You hit the nail on the head with your first paragraph.  I feel like all combat involves is staring at the hotbar, clicking buttons as quickly as I can to take down my foe.  I don&#8217;t get to enjoy what&#8217;s happening in the battle, because I am too busy watching cooldowns.  I love the combat in games like Fallout and FPS, and I think the difference is I get to observe and enjoy what is happening, rather than managing a dashboard.</p>
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		<title>By: [Links] Links for the new year &#171; Welcome to Spinksville!</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/11/25/is-mmo-combat-really-that-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-58554</link>
		<dc:creator>[Links] Links for the new year &#171; Welcome to Spinksville!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2013 18:33:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10765#comment-58554</guid>
		<description>[...] Gordon at We Fly Spitfires wonders what’s so bad about MMO combat anyway. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Gordon at We Fly Spitfires wonders what’s so bad about MMO combat anyway. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: bubble</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/11/25/is-mmo-combat-really-that-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-58461</link>
		<dc:creator>bubble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2012 07:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10765#comment-58461</guid>
		<description>The main thing i want is to not be staring at my hotbar the whole time. They create all these cool mobs and fancy animations and all i ever see is my hotbar or a dead mob (or a dead me) because if you stop clicking cooldowns like a mad monkey you die.

I&#039;d like one skill a level that each have a particular tactical use - which i choose from a tree with different branchs - and a deck of say 5 of those skills that i can use at a time which i select to use for particular mobs and situations e.g. for a very tough single mob i might load up on defensive skills with just a riposte skill for attack while against a bunch of weak goblins when i have strong armor i load up attack and aoe attack skills.

If positioning was made important then constantly moving would make the fights dynamic while still being focused on the centre of the screen and not the hotbar. Also if the equivalent of cooldowns e.g. your riposte triggering or an ability triggered by a group member&#039;s action, create a clickable icon in the centre of the screen that you have a second or two to click rather than the hotbar then again you get the dynamism while still watching the actual fight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The main thing i want is to not be staring at my hotbar the whole time. They create all these cool mobs and fancy animations and all i ever see is my hotbar or a dead mob (or a dead me) because if you stop clicking cooldowns like a mad monkey you die.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like one skill a level that each have a particular tactical use &#8211; which i choose from a tree with different branchs &#8211; and a deck of say 5 of those skills that i can use at a time which i select to use for particular mobs and situations e.g. for a very tough single mob i might load up on defensive skills with just a riposte skill for attack while against a bunch of weak goblins when i have strong armor i load up attack and aoe attack skills.</p>
<p>If positioning was made important then constantly moving would make the fights dynamic while still being focused on the centre of the screen and not the hotbar. Also if the equivalent of cooldowns e.g. your riposte triggering or an ability triggered by a group member&#8217;s action, create a clickable icon in the centre of the screen that you have a second or two to click rather than the hotbar then again you get the dynamism while still watching the actual fight.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/11/25/is-mmo-combat-really-that-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-58447</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2012 20:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10765#comment-58447</guid>
		<description>I miss the EQ style in that the chat time you had allowed you to get to know ppl.... I still chat online with 8 ppl everyday that i met while playing EQ.   We&#039;ve been friends ever since and even though we are all doing different games now we still meet in a chatroom everyday to keep in touch and talk.

If the fighting style and combat that we have now was in place back then I don&#039;t think I would have a friendship with anyone.  Today in games it&#039;s all about soloing unless you need to get through a specific piece of content then everyone is back to soloing.  

I wouldn&#039;t mind at all some &#039;forced&#039; grouping at a slower pace that would give people a chance to actually make a connection.  Who knows, you may even make a FRIEND or two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I miss the EQ style in that the chat time you had allowed you to get to know ppl&#8230;. I still chat online with 8 ppl everyday that i met while playing EQ.   We&#8217;ve been friends ever since and even though we are all doing different games now we still meet in a chatroom everyday to keep in touch and talk.</p>
<p>If the fighting style and combat that we have now was in place back then I don&#8217;t think I would have a friendship with anyone.  Today in games it&#8217;s all about soloing unless you need to get through a specific piece of content then everyone is back to soloing.  </p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t mind at all some &#8216;forced&#8217; grouping at a slower pace that would give people a chance to actually make a connection.  Who knows, you may even make a FRIEND or two.</p>
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		<title>By: Spherix</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/11/25/is-mmo-combat-really-that-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-58395</link>
		<dc:creator>Spherix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 22:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10765#comment-58395</guid>
		<description>The issue is that it&#039;s highly unlikely that anyone would have ever designed any of the combat systems used in MMOs for any game that wasn&#039;t an MMO. They&#039;re designed first and foremost to be forgiving of latency. As a result, there&#039;s a greater disconnect between the pushing of keys and the actions of your character. It&#039;s more like you&#039;re ordering your character around, rather than directly controlling them. It feels like a compromise, like they want something that feels like a console game, but know they can&#039;t do it.

Really, they should either embrace that disconnect, and deliberately make them feel more like an RTS, or they should invent something new. I think it&#039;s that sense of compromise that makes people feel MMO combat is bad. It feels like it&#039;s a bad version of something else, rather than a good version of its own thing.

I&#039;d suggest too that whether people perceive MMO combat to be good or bad would depend on what other gaming experiences they have. Someone who primarily plays MMOs will probably just take it for granted, that MMO combat is a thing unto itself, rather than a poor version of some other system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue is that it&#8217;s highly unlikely that anyone would have ever designed any of the combat systems used in MMOs for any game that wasn&#8217;t an MMO. They&#8217;re designed first and foremost to be forgiving of latency. As a result, there&#8217;s a greater disconnect between the pushing of keys and the actions of your character. It&#8217;s more like you&#8217;re ordering your character around, rather than directly controlling them. It feels like a compromise, like they want something that feels like a console game, but know they can&#8217;t do it.</p>
<p>Really, they should either embrace that disconnect, and deliberately make them feel more like an RTS, or they should invent something new. I think it&#8217;s that sense of compromise that makes people feel MMO combat is bad. It feels like it&#8217;s a bad version of something else, rather than a good version of its own thing.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d suggest too that whether people perceive MMO combat to be good or bad would depend on what other gaming experiences they have. Someone who primarily plays MMOs will probably just take it for granted, that MMO combat is a thing unto itself, rather than a poor version of some other system.</p>
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		<title>By: Tesh</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/11/25/is-mmo-combat-really-that-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-58305</link>
		<dc:creator>Tesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 16:54:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10765#comment-58305</guid>
		<description>I like mindless, auto-attack combat when I&#039;m just playing while trying to rock my little one to sleep.  I like thoughtful, intricate combat when I have the attention to spare for it.  I love careful, tactical combat, but that tends to be turn-based, something uncommon in MMOs.  Games that are flexible and allow more than one of those get bonus points in my book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like mindless, auto-attack combat when I&#8217;m just playing while trying to rock my little one to sleep.  I like thoughtful, intricate combat when I have the attention to spare for it.  I love careful, tactical combat, but that tends to be turn-based, something uncommon in MMOs.  Games that are flexible and allow more than one of those get bonus points in my book.</p>
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		<title>By: Appreciating My Fellow Bloggers &#124;</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/11/25/is-mmo-combat-really-that-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-58284</link>
		<dc:creator>Appreciating My Fellow Bloggers &#124;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2012 06:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10765#comment-58284</guid>
		<description>[...] Music Tobold&#8217;s MMORPG Blog – What Exactly Did You Give That Money For? We Fly Spitfires – Is MMO Combat Really That Bad? Welcome to Spinksville – Kickstarter, Older Games, and The Packaging Up of Gaming Nostalgia West [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Music Tobold&#8217;s MMORPG Blog – What Exactly Did You Give That Money For? We Fly Spitfires – Is MMO Combat Really That Bad? Welcome to Spinksville – Kickstarter, Older Games, and The Packaging Up of Gaming Nostalgia West [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kelindia</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/11/25/is-mmo-combat-really-that-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-58244</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelindia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 07:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10765#comment-58244</guid>
		<description>The problem with trying to discuss whether MMO combat is bad is that you&#039;re tossing the various incarnations of MMO combat into a mixing pot and then asking the question. While I&#039;m sure you meant to imply that there are incarnations you can only ask whether they are bad or not by comparing them to a standard that will have to vary with each different version of what we call MMOs. 

That aside, what happens to me over time while I play is that eventually i get to the point where I know the game well enough to be able to execute the strategies that have the best chance of working with very little room for improvement beyond gear upgrades. When I get to a point in playing where the gameplay becomes stagnant, it isn&#039;t to long before I quit. This is regardless of how well the system responds, or how many abilities I have or how many moves I have in a turn.

Even games that I enjoyed thoroughly don&#039;t have lasting appeal if I get to a point where combat become merely going through the motions. Fallout and Skyrim come to mind particularily. There is zero appeal for me to want to jump back into them, while games like WoW, Rift or even chess and Magic have lasting appeal to me simply because of how much more room for improvement there is.

As such for me the leveling game was by far the worst experiences of WoW and Rift for me from sheer boredom. Thats not to say I didn&#039;t enjoy the stories(thats what made me continue leveling) but I took longer breaks of play, played less per week and took much longer to accomplish things while playing this part of the game. This right here is the reason I never finished leveling my SWTOR toon even though I was enjoying the story quite a bit more then most other games I had played.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with trying to discuss whether MMO combat is bad is that you&#8217;re tossing the various incarnations of MMO combat into a mixing pot and then asking the question. While I&#8217;m sure you meant to imply that there are incarnations you can only ask whether they are bad or not by comparing them to a standard that will have to vary with each different version of what we call MMOs. </p>
<p>That aside, what happens to me over time while I play is that eventually i get to the point where I know the game well enough to be able to execute the strategies that have the best chance of working with very little room for improvement beyond gear upgrades. When I get to a point in playing where the gameplay becomes stagnant, it isn&#8217;t to long before I quit. This is regardless of how well the system responds, or how many abilities I have or how many moves I have in a turn.</p>
<p>Even games that I enjoyed thoroughly don&#8217;t have lasting appeal if I get to a point where combat become merely going through the motions. Fallout and Skyrim come to mind particularily. There is zero appeal for me to want to jump back into them, while games like WoW, Rift or even chess and Magic have lasting appeal to me simply because of how much more room for improvement there is.</p>
<p>As such for me the leveling game was by far the worst experiences of WoW and Rift for me from sheer boredom. Thats not to say I didn&#8217;t enjoy the stories(thats what made me continue leveling) but I took longer breaks of play, played less per week and took much longer to accomplish things while playing this part of the game. This right here is the reason I never finished leveling my SWTOR toon even though I was enjoying the story quite a bit more then most other games I had played.</p>
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		<title>By: Pathak</title>
		<link>http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/2012/11/25/is-mmo-combat-really-that-bad/comment-page-1/#comment-58239</link>
		<dc:creator>Pathak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 02:39:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.weflyspitfires.com/?p=10765#comment-58239</guid>
		<description>Oh, the question: Does MMO combat suck?

MMO combat scratches my itch for battles not full of burst, and meaningful selection of skills.  Particularly GW2 combat, at the moment, where its choices and skill, rather than tiers of gear that will win the fight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, the question: Does MMO combat suck?</p>
<p>MMO combat scratches my itch for battles not full of burst, and meaningful selection of skills.  Particularly GW2 combat, at the moment, where its choices and skill, rather than tiers of gear that will win the fight.</p>
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